tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post112691933593081614..comments2024-03-14T22:55:24.426+08:00Comments on Mr Wang Bakes Good Karma: Racist No. 3Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1127177664214797122005-09-20T08:54:00.000+08:002005-09-20T08:54:00.000+08:00Eh, velly late. Solly hor.:DWell, let's just put i...Eh, velly late. Solly hor.<BR/><BR/>:D<BR/><BR/>Well, let's just put it this way. How many of us organise protests or make films?<BR/><BR/>We're making noise because it affects us personally. It doesn't mean we're not concerned about Martyn See or the Sham protest. Just that it's human nature to complain more loudly about things that personally affect you.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16404874584727768253noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1127096350466497492005-09-19T10:19:00.000+08:002005-09-19T10:19:00.000+08:00Trackback - The Void DeckMr Wang, any other type o...<A HREF="http://www.thevoiddeck.org/index.php?itemid=56/" REL="nofollow">Trackback - The Void Deck</A><BR/><BR/>Mr Wang, any other type of laws in Spore where bad choice of words used on a person could mean legal trouble? Besides defamation laws.The Void Deckhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05449537651329835195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1127017242631538342005-09-18T12:20:00.000+08:002005-09-18T12:20:00.000+08:00So the question we will be watching in the trial f...So the question we will be watching in the trial for is: did all 3 bloggers single out Singaporean Malays specifically?akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1127009088286882432005-09-18T10:04:00.000+08:002005-09-18T10:04:00.000+08:00It is a legal non-issue.Criminal jurisdiction focu...It is a legal non-issue.<BR/><BR/>Criminal jurisdiction focuses on where the effects of the criminal act are felt. If the effects are felt in Singapore, then the Singapore courts can claim jurisdiction.<BR/><BR/>Suppose Osama, while in Afghanistan, plans a terrorist attack in Singapore. His henchmen come to Singapore, execute his plan here and blow up a building.<BR/><BR/>Notwithstanding that Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1127006406245197412005-09-18T09:20:00.000+08:002005-09-18T09:20:00.000+08:00Hi Ivan,"seriously, it's not going to be a problem...Hi Ivan,<BR/><BR/>"seriously, it's not going to be a problem... but i wonder why you'd say it's a problem?" One could argue that the crime took place overseas. The DPP had better have a very compelling reason to justify Singapore's extra-territorial reach.<BR/><BR/>I believe that the ECHR has been a total ass to UK's attempts to expel some illegal immigrants and failed assylum seekers, so it's akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126980881528876542005-09-18T02:14:00.000+08:002005-09-18T02:14:00.000+08:00Hate is a form of strong emotions, irrational even...Hate is a form of strong emotions, irrational even. Emotions are what make humans human. There are better ways to deal with hate than applying something as poorly defined as the seditions act.Recruit Onghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04083198539973588054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126946747337350532005-09-17T16:45:00.000+08:002005-09-17T16:45:00.000+08:00"Ask yourself one simple question: before the poli..."Ask yourself one simple question: before the police charged these two young Singaporeans, were you even aware of their forum or their websites?"<BR/><BR/>No, I wasn't. There must be millions of blogs, forums and websites out there in cyberspace, and there are probably only 20 or 30 that I visit with any regularity. What is your point, please?<BR/><BR/><BR/>"Apparently there was a flame war at Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126946125594348392005-09-17T16:35:00.000+08:002005-09-17T16:35:00.000+08:00"Mr Wang, I think most are rising out of nowhere, ...<I>"Mr Wang, I think most are rising out of nowhere, not to defend the 3 gentlemen's right to racist speech, but to question the appropriateness of using the sedition act on them, instead of say, some other more relevant and less nastily named legislation, or letting it drop."</I><BR/><BR/>If that is where it is really coming from, then I think those defenders have a mistaken understanding of Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126943734024446622005-09-17T15:55:00.000+08:002005-09-17T15:55:00.000+08:00Relax, Mr Wang, your cat is getting flurried. I ho...Relax, Mr Wang, your cat is getting flurried. <BR/><BR/>I hope I will have spoken up for the communist too. Eh i never ask for absolute freedom of speech, hor...plz..<BR/>(read my latest lar - very long, i warn you first)<BR/><BR/>Hi Mugster <BR/><BR/>Britian - if you mean legislation like this which i fairly agree with<BR/><BR/>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2987108.stm<BR/><BR/>then i am Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126943587887528892005-09-17T15:53:00.000+08:002005-09-17T15:53:00.000+08:00"If I'm not wrong, Britain is also taking steps to..."If I'm not wrong, Britain is also taking steps to expel hate-mongerers. Is that also a violation of free speech?"<BR/><BR/>Interesting you should mention this, but YES, expect the newly-enacted British law to be challenged in the European Court...akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126943497616078452005-09-17T15:51:00.000+08:002005-09-17T15:51:00.000+08:00"and so many bloggers arise out of nowhere to defe..."and so many bloggers arise out of nowhere to defend them!?" But how can our blogosphere defend or even castigate them when the blogs and forum posts have been holocausted, and what they've typed are no longer retrievable?<BR/><BR/>Mr Wang, I think most are rising out of nowhere, not to defend the 3 gentlemen's right to racist speech, but to question the appropriateness of using the sedition act akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126942848497356002005-09-17T15:40:00.000+08:002005-09-17T15:40:00.000+08:00And Xeno, you said: "In Martyn's case, it is being...And Xeno, you said: "In Martyn's case, it is being dragged for so long because I believe that the Police and the AGC do not have the nerve to push the case through. "<BR/><BR/>Only time will tell for certain whether they will or will not push the case through. And if they do not push the case through, it may have nothing to do with nerve or guts.<BR/><BR/>It may simply be that the DPP thinks thatGilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126942167737796752005-09-17T15:29:00.000+08:002005-09-17T15:29:00.000+08:00People, people.When has the freedom of speech (or ...People, people.<BR/><BR/>When has the freedom of speech (or for that matter, ANY freedom) ever been supposed to be absolute? Even in the United States of America, the law of defamation exists.<BR/><BR/>You quote me famous sayings about freedom? Here's one for you too:<BR/><BR/>"Your freedom to swing your arm stops where my nose begins."<BR/><BR/>Don't misinterpret this poem:<BR/><BR/>"They came Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126935578511492252005-09-17T13:39:00.000+08:002005-09-17T13:39:00.000+08:00Well,i hate to disagree with you on this one too M...Well,<BR/><BR/>i hate to disagree with you on this one too Mr Wang,<BR/><BR/>There are few things in a democractic society more important than the freedom of speech. Nobody should pretend this does not offend very fundamental concepts of freedom of speech (with whatever limiting factors prescribed)<BR/><BR/>Anyway - talk to much liao, so give you <BR/>poem to read..<BR/><BR/>Poem<BR/>They came Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126933725927687332005-09-17T13:08:00.000+08:002005-09-17T13:08:00.000+08:00Mr Wang,I do not for one minute doubt your stance....Mr Wang,<BR/><BR/>I do not for one minute doubt your stance. I agree that the three accused are f..ckers. But as I saw it, when free and hate speech becomes conflated, people start going in merry-go-rounds.<BR/><BR/>When we look at the case of Martyn and tha Death Penaly vigil and Hung@Dawn concert, the Government used softer mechanisms, softer regulations, tantamount to state harassment. In xenoboysghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00770241748512478978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126932064466756932005-09-17T12:41:00.000+08:002005-09-17T12:41:00.000+08:00Hugewhaleshark, I can accept that. And we could an...Hugewhaleshark, I can accept that. And we could analyse the issue based on your points.<BR/><BR/>1. "Bloggers shd ask themselves whether they are protesting a perceived clampdown on blogging, or a perceived clampdown on freedom of expression" is sensible. Bloggers are protecting their own interests in this particular instance of hue and cry. And why not?<BR/><BR/>If the forums and blogs were akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126931612809654462005-09-17T12:33:00.000+08:002005-09-17T12:33:00.000+08:00"There are thought to be more than one million act..."<I>There are thought to be more than one million active Internet users in Singapore, and the maths would suggest there are more people with the ability to do good and police the system than there are those who preach intolerance, ridicule and call others' beliefs into question.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Gosh, this cannot be more wrong. Calling others' beliefs into question does not equate intolerance.lbandithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02688854544479680412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126931139468415392005-09-17T12:25:00.000+08:002005-09-17T12:25:00.000+08:00I'm with Mr Wang. It is a matter of extent of the ...I'm with Mr Wang. It is a matter of extent of the hue and cry, what. Bloggers shd ask themselves whether they are protesting a perceived clampdown on blogging, or a perceived clampdown on freedom of expression.hugewhalesharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05464651179214970834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126928946172566522005-09-17T11:49:00.000+08:002005-09-17T11:49:00.000+08:00Mr Wang, Steve McDermott made a hue and cry for it...Mr Wang, Steve McDermott made a hue and cry for items a, b, c.<BR/>Many local blogs (including yours) made a hue and cry for items a and c as well.<BR/><BR/>Am not sure what's happening here, that you're saying they haven't?akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126927661821542462005-09-17T11:27:00.000+08:002005-09-17T11:27:00.000+08:00Akikonomu, yes, I think Malays/Muslims would feel ...Akikonomu, yes, I think Malays/Muslims would feel insulted (and rightly so). If I recall correctly, it was on Mr Brown's blog that a Malay Muslim commented that he had seen the messages and felt shocked and threatened.<BR/><BR/>Mercer, I feel somewhat disappointed that:<BR/><BR/>(a) when Martyn See came under police investigation for making a party political film, bloggers did not make a hue and Gilbert Koh aka Mr Wanghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01027678080233274309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126924043224190842005-09-17T10:27:00.000+08:002005-09-17T10:27:00.000+08:00Actually, if I wanted to be really mean and call P...Actually, if I wanted to be really mean and call PJacob out, I'd make these points:<BR/><BR/>1. PJacob obviously hasn't been reading tomorrow.sg in June, where the holocaust II/III blogs and Phoenyx's page were featured in a post.<BR/><BR/>2. As I recall, the bloggers came under censure in the comments to the post, as did tomorrow.sg, for featuring them.<BR/><BR/>3. Conclusion: PJacob shouldn't akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126923727393761862005-09-17T10:22:00.000+08:002005-09-17T10:22:00.000+08:00I got stuck right at the beginning, actually, with...I got stuck right at the beginning, actually, with this: <BR/><BR/>"THERE are some things, many actually, that are more important than freedom of speech."<BR/><BR/>Maybe so. Probably so. But the author was damn quick to dismiss what a large portion of the world considers nearly sacred. <BR/><BR/>The issue of freedom of speech is complex and important, and is deserving of a rational, thoughtful Michael McClunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14708067144914238641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126922360206424652005-09-17T09:59:00.000+08:002005-09-17T09:59:00.000+08:00akikonomu,You are too subtle for my simple mind. Y...akikonomu,<BR/><BR/>You are too subtle for my simple mind. Your point seems to be that if society is strong enough to reject these racist views, then it is not important whether the racists are prosecuted or not.<BR/><BR/>My simple mind tells me this: it is precisely because society rejects racism and regards it as a <I><B>crime</B></I> that these racists must be prosecuted.<BR/><BR/>Right?hugewhalesharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05464651179214970834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126920406819920142005-09-17T09:26:00.000+08:002005-09-17T09:26:00.000+08:00Mr Wang, I usually agree with your analyses, but n...Mr Wang, I usually agree with your analyses, but not today =D<BR/><BR/>"3. Ask yourself honestly - how would you feel about this matter if you were a member of a racial or religious minority?"<BR/><BR/>More appropriate is:<BR/>0. Ask very nicely and humbly members of the affected racial/religious minority whether they care about these seditious bloggers or what they said.<BR/><BR/>"Have we, akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12908820.post-1126920351542633612005-09-17T09:25:00.000+08:002005-09-17T09:25:00.000+08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.akikonomuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05750460516384317828noreply@blogger.com